ladystrange Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 hi all, i spend a lot of time at the southland dog park, while i was there today i watched the fence to the upstream side of the bridge being repaired. There were several complaints to the city of Fly Anglers pulling down the fencing now that the water is high to reach the island and side channel. the part of the fence being pulled down is aobve the high water mark, everything that is in the water being hit with all the crap in the river is still erect and catching junk. I did ask how it was determined that it was fly anglers and apparently there have been several complaints of 4-5 different individuals that were witnessed by dog walkers who called 311. The island is a nesting area and part of a wildlife reserve for birds and other animals and if you have been on the water at all you will have noticed the ducklings and gosslings around. chances are the humans are nto going to go stepping in a nest, but the hole in the fence remains and dogs do sneak on to the other side and can cause considerable damange to a nest or babies. As a friendly reminder to all of the angling community out there, leave the nature reserve to nature, dont destroy city erected barriers that the tax payor is on the hook for to fix for someone's selfishness. let your friends know too. it's a big river and lots of access points. please access the river without the need to destroy property. As a side note, while i was down there, 2 different people had stories about dogs getting in to the nature preserve. both dogs went through the fencing where it was torn down. one chased a baby bird of some sort and then was chased in to the water by mama bird. i suspect it was a goose. once in the river the dog was caught by the under tow of the eddy at the main river and the channel meeting. the dog did come back up but it was almost at the bridge. The other dog just ended up in the water and it took the dog until the down stream side of the bridge before it could get back to shore and out again. One of the dog owners is a city police officer and is some what annoyed. there was also some mention of survaliance and fines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanJuanWorm Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Sounds like the dog owners are the problem not the anglers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailhead Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 So did the dog owners tear down the fence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladystrange Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 well the big sign clearly states nature reserve no access and then there is a fence. i would think that might be a hint that it is not permitted for people to go in to the area. i guess we could have jugglers and a 40 piece brass band set up in front of it with a 7ft tall man standing there saying keep out. but that seems a little over board, dont you think? or maybe not in the day and age of self entitlement and instant gratification. even the best trained dog isnt 100% perfect. if the fence had not been torn down by people, then the dogs would not have been able to go through the fence. granted people should pay more attention to what their dogs are doing and sadly many do not and most dogs are poorly trained at best. the point is that people are destroying property to fish. most of us are careful about trespassing and packing out our garbage and then there are people who dont care and think the rules dont apply to them. if those people who are destroying the fencing happen to be on the board and read the post, i hope they take in to consideration that they are destroying city property. not only that, it is a nature reserves and Fish and wildlife could probably also get involved. no one wants to lose their gear or get fined when there are other ways to access the river that does not involve tesspassing, destroying property or harrassing wildlife. on the other extreme, there could always be the chance of getting arrested for vandalizm and trespassing. after being convicted with a conditional sentance of 2 years less a day, try explaining to that wife that they can't take the kids to disneyland because he have a criminal record and the States wont let the person in the country, all because that person wanted to fish in an area that is off limits. best of luck with that one. and never mind the people who need to be bonded in order to work. cant be bonded with a criminal record. that sux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladystrange Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 no Vic, it was reported to the city by several different people that 4-5 different fishermen with fly rods - not gear had torn down the fence. in the summer and fall, i see them in there all the time but when the water is lower you can walk around the bottom of the fence and stay in the water without going on to the nature reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seby Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 when the water is lower you can walk around the bottom of the fence and stay in the water without going on to the nature reserve. Ya thats what I do when the waters lower, just wade out around the posts. Its sick to think that people in the flyfishing community would be so non caring and destroy a fence just for access. I dont see how tearing down the fence in that section would even help much, as there is a bit of a wet ditch on the other side and then a large side channel you need waders no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentan Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Nothing should come as a surprize at this stage of the game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CopperJonny Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Well for having just found that area which is brand new as of this weekend for myself , looks like its a great place to stay away from now . Geeze...regardless of being on the east bank of that part of the river. I don't feel like being gunned and scrutinized , due to some careless people . Or maybe this is a chance for us to step up and try to repair what damage has been done , and show our true colours as Conservationists , at the same time as teaching those of "us" who may not understand principles , ethics , and discipline when it comes to our lifestyle . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 420FLYFISHIN Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 hehe, you said erect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayhad Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I'm no lawyer, BUT a person how tresspasses in Ab is not subject to anything close to a conditional sentance, it isn't an inditable (sp) offence and there is no jail time associated therefore no conditional offence. Conditional sentencing became part of the Canadian justice system with the passage of Bill C-41 in 1995. Canadian lawmakers were concerned with the overuse of incarceration as a means of addressing crime in Canada, particularly as it applied to aboriginal peoples. Rather than focusing on incarceration, conditional sentencing is designed to keep some offenders out of jail and in the community. Often this means serving their sentence under "house arrest" in their own homes where they can continue to work or attend school. Not all offenders are eligible for the program. To be considered, a sentence must be less than two years long, must not be an offence that carries a mandatory minimum sentence, and the judge must be convinced the offender does not pose a danger to community Tresspass (2) A person who is guilty of an offence under subsection (1), whether or not any damage is caused by the contravention, is liable (a) for a first offence, to a fine not exceeding $2000, and ( for a 2nd or subsequent offence in relation to the same land, to a fine not exceeding $5000. Worse then a tresspasser is a fear monger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Thank you very much ladystrange for a very solid and thoughtful post. As anglers we should after all should be wardens of the water for the sake of ourselves an our sport. Rights that are given can be taken away, access is one of them. It is unfortunate that a few will abuse the resources and property still others seem to take pleasure on belittling concerns with demeaning comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Jayhad: they could be charged with this though, which is a hybrid offence (can be an indictable if the crown so chooses to proceed that way)... Criminal Code Section 430 Mischief 430. (1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully (a ) destroys or damages property; (b ) renders property dangerous, useless, inoperative or ineffective; (c ) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property; or (d ) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property. and the punishment is as follows: (4) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property, other than property described in subsection (3), (a ) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or (b ) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. so they COULD spend time in jail for this..... though I doubt the crown would proceed that way unless there were extenuating circumstances, like a long record of trespass/mischief, etc cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIam Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 If you don't tear down fences and trespass, there is no need to worry about the consequences of those actions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrinhurst Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 EVERY time I have fished southland, I just waded out and walked around. No need to climb or tear down a fence. Ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonvilly Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I think I need some clarification here: Ladystrange is saying that people having been pulling down the fence to gain access to a closed nesting area. Some people are saying I don't pull down the fence but rather I walk around it to gain access. Point of clarification This restricted area, does it mean closed to angling? Is that why the fence is there? If so then wouldn't wading around the fence be the same as crossing the fence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 As far as I'm aware the only section of the Bow in the city that's entirely closed to angling is within the Inglewood bird sanctuary. The rest you can fish as long as you're below the high water mark no matter what. Edit: And I think it's crap that people are tearing down a fence to access water as that's how draconian regulations get put in place, but that fence also extends further into the water (below the high water mark) than it legally can as far as I'm aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toirtis Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 As a zoologist and a fly-angler that is very law-abiding, if I spot anyone tearing down a fence to access a protected area, I will lay into them myself....there is no excuse for this sort of behaviour. I should hate to think that CCTV cams might be necessary to arrest this, but if they are, I had better not see anyone I know on them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CopperJonny Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 This is an embarrasement none the less as a fly fisher !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanJuanWorm Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 EVERY time I have fished southland, I just waded out and walked around. No need to climb or tear down a fence. Ludicrous. I don't fish around Southland because I hate people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrinhurst Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I don't fish around Southland because I hate people. You and me both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailhead Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I don't fish there anymore either, got attacked by a woman's dog (oh he won't bite). From what I have been told by the park rangers in FC and the folks at Inglewood, is that the river is open to fishing everywhere, just as long as you stay within the highwater mark limits. You can't fish the ponds in Inglewood, and you can't walk across Duck Island.But you can walk along the river and jump out of a boat and fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 This is an embarrasement none the less as a fly fisher !! I dug up a big mess of earthworms last week, threw them on a massive treble, caught more than my limit, gaffed each and every one of them, shot a grizzly on my way home cause he "attacked me" then jet boated home and you know what? I'm embarrassed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toirtis Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I dug up a big mess of earthworms last week, threw them on a massive treble, caught more than my limit, gaffed each and every one of them, shot a grizzly on my way home cause he "attacked me" then jet boated home.... All bull trout, of course....and I hope you were using a 6-hook rig...on three rods.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhurt Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I do not belive that it is all fishermen, there has been nurmeours times I have been down there at night and see kids in on the island making a bon fire. I belive some blame might be towards fly fisers but I do not think all of the blame is there. Go down to southland during the night around 1 or 2am and you will see what I am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I would not be so quick to blame fishermen, either. I have had some very nasty, unrational comments from a few dog owners there (dog hater, fish killer...), and I would not put it past those few to see a broken fence and call 311 to blame it on anglers. Why would you rip a fence down instead of jumping over? It seems more like vandalism than access. Regardless who it was, it sucks. It will probably make it more difficult for reasonable anglers to fish there. As for angler access here: Calling this area a preserve is a joke. The City is not qualified to designate such areas. It is a stones through from a major highway; you can see IKEA from it! The area was fenced off to keep dogs out to assist in the bank stabilization efforts to keep the river from encroaching on sensitive habitats. And by sensitive habitats I mean the QE2 ROW, not the weedy, garbage littered, sewage outflow riparian area! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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